Q & A following Trustee Board presentation

Last updated: 30 May 2022


Does this mean that Playcentre is moving towards being a commercial early childhood education (ECE) provider?

Are we losing our PC culture and identity?

Is a decision on whether a particular centre will stay within Playcentre Aotearoa or will become independent a once and for all decision? If a Playcentre chose to be independent, could it re-join at a later stage?

With the ability of individual centres to opt out - is that a one-time decision or can centres change models?

How does the process for amendments to the Deed of Trust fit with our treaty partnership commitment?

Have you ever seen this actually work? Ask a Kindergarten how much fun it is to send in an application, to access funds that they worked their butt off for!!! Ever heard of Westmeats or Ansco Foods. There are so many ways that this could go bad. Is there already a model that this would be based off, or is this still in a basic development pipe dream idea phase..... like the communication debacle.

Co-design - What schedule is this element working to?

Why will this be more successful this time? Didn’t we have confidence last time? What is different now?

How much is needed to fund all these plans? It sounds really expensive from a manpower perspective.

What happens if unsuccessful? What part of the project has to stop or rollback?

If the recommendations aren’t accepted, would the co-design talks fail? Is the ask for better funding contingent on these recommendations being accepted and implemented?

How will Playcentre playgroups be affected by these changes?

What will happen to certificated playgroups?

When will more information be released regarding remaining independent and what the associated fees are for this?

What are you doing to support rural playcentre/playgroups?

Currently each (most) centre is an Incorporated Society and Charity in its own right. There has just been information shared about needing to update our Constitutions with the new Inc Soc rules. Will this still be required? Or will the new Trust Deed cover this?

If this was to go ahead, what’s to say a years time you won’t change the rules around tagging money etc. we will have already lost control anyway. What’s to say this won’t go further?

What is the difference between and Trust Deed and Constitution? Why the change?

Centre president has only just begun to understand what and when Hui A Tau is. They havent begun to dissect the proposal because they are overwhelmed with centre emails.

If we choose to opt out of the proposed changes and become an individual centre but still under the Playcentre “umbrella” what would this look like for our centre?

Presidency was taken on reluctantly and she sees her job as just keeping the doors open. They have dropped to playgroup status once before. As a result of the stress of staying open they feel they have no capacity to engage in governance without much more support then they currently have.

Our building and land was gifted to us by our community for our community. We are also an incorporated society (1 of 14 I believe of the 400 centres) and have our own trust deed. What extra steps or considerations do we need to take if we do/do not accept to hand over our assets?

If we don't accept to become part of the trust deed and would like to continue on running as a Playcentre I understand we would need to self support with licencing, run sessions, pay a levy etc but would we still get any financial support like we do now through MOE funding and grants? Also would we still have our support team like centre advisors, centre support workers etc?

If a centre decided to become independent, would the branding agreement just give them access to branding? Or would they still be able to access the education programme? How would that work - would they have to pay to access it?

Will centres still be able to determine some of their own policies? For example, our centre has a minimum attendance policy to support our aim of being a primary ECE provider with a membership committed to education. Would we still be allowed to have this policy for our centre?

Could "Playcentre Aotearoa Equity Funding" please be renamed to something else to avoid confusion with MOE equity funding?

If centres are only a branch, not their own entity, will they still have an AGM of their own?

If we choose to opt out and this goes ahead. Do things remain as is? Still have a CA etc?

My biggest question is you say this is being done as we're supposedly not meeting legislation. That's a very vague statement. What legislations aren't we meeting and how are we not meeting them? Have alternatives been looked at on how to fix these holes? If so what else was looked at? And why wasn't it suitable?

Can you please further explain those who decide not to sign. Will they still have access to education? Will they continue to be able to use their building? Will they effectively be operating on their own, employing their own staff etc? Could they join up at a later date if that is what a future group decides?

I don't have a question as such, I just wanted to provide some feedback because the majority of the questions on this page sound rather negative...I think that what you have proposed sounds wonderful! I am so excited for this draft trustee deed to be approved because we 100% need less admin responsibilities and more time to play with the tamariki. I love the idea of a Kaimahi in each centre to take on the admin responsibilities as well has having some continuation as members come and go. Well done Trustee Board on all of your mahi on this. I also want to thank you for the transparency you have provided especially with the zoom sessions from yourselves, David Moger and Tracey Martin. It makes me feel valued to be so involved in what is going on. I know that we are in good hands. Thank you.


What happens to all the money currently in our bank account?

What happens to members donations?

Is the funding co-design with the Ministry conditional on us accepting the Trust deed?

What if the Ministry's funding proposal doesn't actually cover enough kaimahi hours to do the job fully?

How will tagged funds be tracked and distributed once they have been transferred to Playcentre Aotearoa? Our Playcentre has significant savings (~$60k) which we have been saving through being frugal and fundraising, in particular for a couple of major projects including a renovation of our outdoor space. What will happen to these funds and how can we ensure that our Playcentre will be able to undertake these renovations using the funds that our whānau have worked tirelessly to save and fundraise?

Playcentre Aotearoa funds can be equitably distributed to ensure that there are viable centres across the motu. Could Playcentre Aotearoa decide that a centre is not viable and wind it up?

If money is managed at a central level why would a centre self-license, either through members completing the education or benefiting from members who are already qualified with ECE qualifications? Self-licensing is a big commitment for those that choice to do so, they have to always be on-time/stay for the whole session/take on the responsibility of being the 'person responsible'. If there is no benefit to a centre in doing this, will not all centres move to paying for session facilitators and in the end costing PA more?

Is a budget available for this proposed restructure?

When/how will more detail about for the finance policy be released?

Will the centres with individual charity status retain it? Treasurer is currently one of the officers that have to be named for the charity register.

Currently our annual budgets can aim to be in surplus funds for the purpose of saving towards a longer term project. Will there be a way for our annual budgets to tag a certain amount of money to be put towards a future project that can't be saved for in one year? Large projects really require more than fundraiser funds.

Currently centre hires (including SPACE) are under a fundraising code in Xero. Are we able to continue to have all hire income tagged to our centre as funds raised?

What level of authority will centres have to choose new resources? Can they still opt to spend money on things like flowers for a significant volunteer contribution? Can there be a list of basic supplies that are purchased without having to come cap-in-hand (e.g. replacing a key broken toy or topping up supplies like printer ink and paint)?

Can centres choose their own suppliers? Recently, some of the "approved suppliers" recommended by Playcentre Aotearoa actually charged much more than other local options.

Will there be flexibility to ride roll fluctuations? Currently we run losses some years and surpluses other years. I'd hate to see sessions slashed in lean years.

Will there be a commitment that a minimum percentage of funds will go to centre operating costs?

I hear our treasurer is talking about emptying our Playcentre bank account and transferring the money to some other account she is setting up. Can she actually do this?

What would be the time frame for centralised accounts? As a current treasurer whose youngest child will be starting school in T1 2023, I had planned to hand over the role at this AGM. However if the treasurer role is disbanded if the Trust is adopted - is it worth training a new treasurer or getting new signatories? This also applies to other officer roles that may be taken over by the Kaimahi.

Would any donations/fees be put in the central pool bank account?

Would all fundraising money be put in a central bank pool?

How many centres aren’t on Xero? - we were told they were all converted over. The then CFO won a prize for it. Was this not true?

Why aren’t these centres on Xero? How can they resist this directive for so long? Why have they not been brought into line?

When the CEO said only 25% of centres are using Xero to the extent they should, what does this mean? Have the problem centres received feedback they aren’t compliant? I’ve never had any feedback good or bad - but would be open to being pulled up on things. We just get lots of requests for info.

I know of a cluster that has a paid bookkeeper. Was this considered an option to support centres without a Treasurer or those struggling with Xero or across the board for all centres? If not, why was this discounted as a viable solution?

What evidence of fraud have you seen? How many instances?

How many centres don’t have dual authorisations for transactions? Or break other banking rules of engagement for a charity?

How many centres don’t have a Treasurer?

The word ‘oversight’ was used a lot - you don’t need access to the cash to have oversight. You can achieve this with access to Xero. Why are you taking it very significant step further?

How huge would the finance team need to be to manage the transactions across all centres nationwide? How many invoices do you anticipate per payment run nationwide? Would they be able to pay on time? We have a poor reputation for this apparently, according to Property. Would they issue all invoices, receipts and donation receipts for every fee/koha per person per term and year? Would they invoice tiny things like centre hireage to members which would be more effort than the revenue they bring in?

What would centres be left with to operate? Do we need approval for every tiny thing or only if we look to be getting over budget for a line item or category? Would you quibble with paying member expenses when they have incurred a cost on centre business? It sounds like having to come cap in hand which is quite unappealing, and to people who are far removed from our centre. How would this be efficient so we can replenish consumables as needed so we can offer a good play experience?

What visibility would we have on our money/spend against budget at a centre level? There is only mention of reports on fundraised/grants monies being provided. Would we get reports on spend across all the budget as now? We need this to apply for grants and manage spend.

Reporting on grants needs to be much more than once monthly - we’d need to know when funds land in the account, as timings vary greatly from org to org and this kicks off the ability to outlay costs. And we’d need reporting and information to support accountability reports back to the grant orgs.

Would you move to accrual accounting?

Would you port across all direct debits/accounts for vendors and honour them? If you are operating at a loss would you have an OK credit rating to take on payment on account? We had to provide evidence of prompt payment etc when we set up accounts.

Would larger/more successful centres’ bulk funding be used to prop up smaller/failing centres? Who and how is it decided that a centre should remain open when failing? Do you have a view to keep a nationwide spread of centres even when there is not the demand? Do you see Playcentre naturally getting smaller with more financial pressures for caregivers to work, especially post covid?

Where would koha go? This is given for the centre not a central pot, would people be willing to pay a koha if you don’t know if you can access it for centre use? You might not find it much money, but it represents a degree of support and commitment to the centre - and may now be at risk.

Where will the incentive be for centres to cut costs/trim budget? Find cheaper vendors/suppliers? Renegotiate utilities? When it’s all in one anonymous pot. Who will notice a water leak or electrical issue causing a bill to be higher than normal?

There’s no mention anywhere of the HQ negotiating discounts/ getting economies of scale for instance with utilities or suppliers of goods in common. Could the op centre deliver this? It seems like a value add they could work on (telephony not a great example, but power maybe?) Or getting better interest rates on the funds all pooled together?

First aid (Auckland only maybe): provision of courses was ceased from the regional office, requiring us to organise and host our own. We buy and sell spaces from/to other centres. It’s cheaper than going to public courses. This was sold to us as a fundraising activity, but we’re taking from one centre to give to another which felt ethically off. How would first aid course provision work now when we can’t access our own account, raise an invoice and all money is in one pot anyway? This needs to be clear as sessions can’t run without a current first aider.

Do you see this announcement might cause a dash to spend centre money quickly to keep it out of centralised hands? Does that worry you that this spend may be unwise?

Budget process - how would determining ‘known operational costs’ be decided upon?

Success with grants comes from proving we are small and poor. You have to submit your centre’s P&L and bank balance too. Putting all accounts together makes us look huge, more flush with cash, less efficient/thrifty and therefore less needy for a grant payout/donation. This change would have a negative impact on grant success, therefore less income, which is undesirable. Grants have been a necessary and huge income stream for us and this would be at risk, when we have lost COGS and now cannot approach Lottery Communities either according to the last comms on this.

If we’re at arms length from our funds and transactions, and need to submit a grant accountability report, we’d be raising admin requests for the proof we need. This adds to time for us and admin for Finance/kaimahi.

You can recognise the hard mahi of centres with grants and fundraising now, as it is available to report on in Xero, to which you have access, and we pass this information up at the close of every financial year in the Treasurer survey. We never got a ‘well done’ tho.

Why do we hire the centre out to space at a loss of $20 per session?

Are you aware Space and Beyond is in direct competition with Playcentre and allows kids to stay on beyond 2 years old? We have just lost two membership prospects in a month due to this rule-breaking.

Can you please define what is meant by Playcentre Aotearoa Equity Funding? Is this a new avenue of funding?

I am concerned and confused about equity funding. We are a centre that has a large financial reserve built up over many years of careful fundraising. I understand that the current financial proposal will make a plan to spend some of that money with our centre but then roll the remaining into the equity fund account. However I've also read that all the funds will remain linked to the centre. Could you please provide clarity on this.

If you are confident this can work with existing funds why cant centres keep existing fund reserves tagged to their centre? It may help get the proposal over the line.

I have been treasurer coming up two years at my centre. I have learnt a lot and feel valued in my position. I must be honest and say I felt a little gutted when I read the proposal. It feels like all our hard work is completely undervalued, when we will no longer have access to or control over our own funds. I do understand concerns about needing to protect PC Aotearoa’s finances. However absorbing our funds seems a really extreme solution, that put into practice will be a nightmare. Surely we could add someone from the PC financial team as a signatory to our bank accounts and any transaction over a certain amount must be approved by this person. I know we can set different limits for different signatories at our bank, and I’m sure this would be possible for other banks too.

The presentation said that our centres current funds will be tagged for our centre “for a period of time”. Also the draft trust deed stated that if we choose to come under the trust deed that our bank balance would ….“Absorb the balance into Playcentre Aotearoa general funds to support future equity funding”. Can you confirm our $$ stays tagged to us until we choose to use it. Or are you planning to “absorb” it for future equity funding?

How will the funds to be tagged to a centre from our current bank accounts be calculated? Also why is there a set timeframe of one year to spend those funds, some bigger projects may have been fundraised for that may be a number of years into the future?

How does taking volunteer roles and paying people to do it, adding in the cost of 400 kaimahi, putting money from strong, well supported centres into loss-making businesses and taking locally fundraised/ saved money away from their communities (therefore acting as a deterrent for people to give in the first place) and seemingly working to annual budgets (if we have to spend everything in the budget or risk losing it, how do you save for something bigger?) make any sort of economic sense? And how does this benefit the centres who are actually just fine right now? Also I agree with the person who commented that it is like Three Waters. Our community has given a lot and worked damned hard or the money we have, and in effect you’re stealing it off our kids.

You mention donations being tagged to the centre. What about fees? Will we still be allowed to charge these instead of asking for a donation? We charge fees so we can access WINZ subsidies for our families which benefit the family and also bring in a decent income for our centre. If we can continue to charge fees, will they be tagged to our centre too?

How will we manage fundraising endeavours without a local centre back account e.g. fund raising via sales where we need to reconcile that money has been received for orders of fundraising goods before making orders and then paying supplier? I'm not clear on how this will work with no local centre account?

If Playcentre Aotearoa have access to all centres Xero accounts, and are planning to have a Kaimahi in each centre, assumably to have oversight and communication between centre and PCA, and to minimise admin for the centres. Then what is the benefit for centres of taking away centres bank accounts and financial autonomy?

What formula do you use to determine if a centre is viable or not?

Currently we pay a book keeper to help us with financials, we also have a centre treasurer. We believe this is a sound, fair and secure way to leave centres in charge or their finances but also be double checked. Why can this not be applied to all centres going forward? Rather than removing financials from centres?

Centres aren't going to share their fundraising money as long as it's used within an adequate time period for the thing they fundraised for, correct?

 I thought Playcentre Aotearoa would have had a safety fund in place where all centres (or at least those with a healthy bank balance) would contribute a certain amount each year to ensure centres who are struggling can stay afloat. Could this have been done years ago to avoid the situation Playcentre Aotearoa and the board are facing now? Is it too late to do something similar now?

You said in some of your answers that treasurers aren’t currently doing what they are suppose to and you don’t get reports etc…With all centres being on xero now, isn’t this something you can do anyway? Secondly - instead of looking to remove a centres independence, why don’t you look at instead providing assistance or a training or something of the likes to new treasures so they are clear on their responsibilities? Having taken over this roll at the start of the year I’ve had no guidance or communication with anyone outside of my immediate centre whanau in regards to this roll - which feels like a gap higher up?

How much money are we going to lose or gain? If we get less then we currently do this will again make things harder for us - we fundraiser obviously a lot to have some money in our accounts. But with fundraising being made harder. This could put a lot of pressure on us. More details around an actual number would be great here.

Reports for fundraising- currently these are checked nightly currently to see who’s paid. If only check at the EOM it makes it harder for fundraising seeing who’s paid etc. especially if they are people out of our centre and within community we don’t know as we do a lot of outreach for promotion of our centre and for fundraising. How will this work? Will all fundraising have to be run so it lines up with your EOM reports and the hope they come on time to us every month? Or we will have to work on people being true to their word every time.

Realistically what will be time frame for reimbursements? Currently we do this overnight - if only getting month end reports and paying bills monthly will this become the norm? If so, what new systems will be put in to make purchasing the likes of flour easier?

We currently have a cleaner 10 hours a week after our 5 sessions, will we be able to keep this under operating costs?

Can you provide a similar organisation that is a charity and runs with this finance model successfully?

What is the difference in revenue that will be required for this proposal? How will this additional funding be obtained (guessing not just MOE funding).

The centralizing of funds sounds like communism and is worrying. What happens to hard earnt fundraising that a centre has made?

Will we be able to buy new resources quickly as we are now, especially around welcoming the culture of new whanaus? Will we have the financial freedom to quickly adapt to shifting memberships needs when it comes to cultural resources or resources to support high needs children?

Will the annual $500 Thomas George Macarthy Trust Grant be allocated to each centre for them to use as intended, or will it be pooled? "The Thomas George Macarthy Trust donates to registered charitable or educational organisations operating in the old Wellington provincial district, defined as the area of the North Island which is south of Turangi and excluding Taranaki and Hawke's Bay"

Will the centre have a say where to spend their allocated budget or is this in the kaimahi and national finance control?

How will the reimbursements work? Members are shelling out their own money and at our centre, we aim to refund them in a weeks time. If this timeframe not possible, I don’t think members will be willing to use their money. Will there be a petty cash introduced?

Our centre is a self-licensed centre. We don’t pay for educators and have a healthy cashflow and bank account. We don’t do fundraisers (only once a year) as this takes so much added work for members. With this model, seems like the pressure will shift from education and admin to fundraising. Especially since budget will be controlled by national finance.

I was concerned the read in the explanation about the way finances will work that the TB considers fundraising good advertising in our communities. I think it is poor advertising because it implies the workload associated with fundraising by being part of the group. Fundraising typically has a very poor return on time. Many centres are looking to reduce fundraising burden on parents, and one of my concerns is moving from away our centre's model where we don't require fundraising to be financially viable. Furthermore not all communities are financially able to afford to support fundraising, creating further disparity between centres. I would like to see a funding model co-constructed that doesn't require fundraising as an income stream for PCA to be financially viable.

Many centres have gone a long time with no CA. Many centres also meet licensing requirements within their parent team (no paid facilitator), and this $$ savings forms part of their income stream. (aka replaces fundraising). For centres where a kaimahi isn't required for licensing because parents have the necessary qualifications, or where one is unable to be employed eg no suitable applicants, will there be any financial consideration in their budget?

Will centres still be able to set their own fees/donations?

How will this affect applying for grants etc for our centre? Will we be able to do this still or will this become the responsibility of Playcentre Aotearoa or a Kaimahi?

Will members be able to claim back small purchases with the restructure? As a small centre we often will have a member pick small things up for crafts or milk for coffee etc and then reimburse them. Will this be able to be done still or will everything need to be ordered via an account?

Will Equity funding (eg Isolation Funding) continue to be tagged entirely to the centre which qualifies for it?

Currently many playcentres are not GST registered as they do not meet the required income level. With amalgamation of funds will this mean all playcentres income is now liable for GST this will mean a significant reduction in income as playcentres biggest expense is salaries which do not occur GST, it will certainly not be of benefit. Can you please inform the membership of the increased costs to the organisation if this is to be the case?

With PA approving purchase requests what would be our options to spend on something that was deemed unnecessary but was still important to our centre families? Could we apply for grants, fundraise or challenge the decision? E.g. an upgrade/ renovation when other centres had a more urgent need Or an expensive version of a toy or piece of equipment.

When we fundraise, people pay into our account. How will this work with us no longer having an account? Sometimes we have a raffle with small $2 amounts coming in. How will this be allocated to our fundraising amount? Not everyone remembers to put in reference details. How will we be able to see who has paid for their fundraising items (e.g pies) before we order them? This is often needing to be checked the day the orders need to be placed. This sounds like a huge overhead in administration costs.

Our photocopier died, and we urgently needed it replaced. This is not a budgeted expense, but is very much needed. Under the new process will we have money to replace it, and how long will the process take for a new one to be up and running? It took us 2 weeks to sort and that was too long. Will we be allowed to choose the more expensive machine that is more economical to run?

You answered a previous question about fundraising for large projects by saying the new way will be better because you can amalgamate money from separate silos… so if you’re going to give out all this money, where is the incentive for anyone to fundraise for it in the first place? And if that happens then all the other silos will be empty too… so you’re heading into a decline pretty quickly. Or promising a whole lot more than is realistic. Both of which equate to dishonesty and the ultimate demise of playcentre anyway. Also, how long does money stay “tagged” to a centre? And if you think a centre has a strong history of community support, will you be expecting that to continue and handing out less from the national pool in expectation that their strong fundraising history subsidises it, or what will the approach be?

I am the grants officer (among other things!) for our Playcentre. We have been very successful with grants over the past few years, and I think this is because we tell the unique story of our own Playcentre in our applications. We use our own charities registration, and our own Tier 4 financial report for our grant applications (not the Playcentre Aotearoa financial report). If we move our bank accounts to Playcentre Aotearoa, is there still a way to show our funders exactly what OUR Playcentre earns and spends in a year? Not what 400 Playcentres earn and spend in a year, as this is irrelevant to our centre.

Our centre currently banks with TSB, and in doing so we are favoured as a recipient of funding from the Toi Foundation (formerly TSB Community Trust). Last year we received $16,100 from them. Will Taranaki centres still have the same access to this funding if we are no longer banking with TSB?

Will centres just spend all their cash beforehand? Rather than see it transferred to the Playcentre Aotearoa account?

What is the process that the kaimahi will go through to purchase consumable resources? If it is too much of a rigmarole, I worry that this may trigger centre members to set up their own personal accounts for Playcentre use. Which is exactly the type of thing you are trying to avoid! The purchasing process needs to be REALLY fast, easy and simple.

Can you give some examples where this financial management model is used successfully elsewhere? Especially in not-for-profits.

With families deciding to or not to offer a donation/fees each term to their Playcentre, each Playcentre probably has different term donation/fee amounts: Where will our families donations/fees be allocated to in the annual budget? What happens when Playcentres have different term amounts? or will every Playcentre have the same donation/fee amount for each term?

Where are they expecting to get all their income from to fund all the Playcentre projects? Where will they draw the line between what is funded by PA and what is funded by each individual playcentre?

From our understanding there will be a centralised bank account and each Playcentre will have an annual budget. For some items on the budget as a Playcentre we have local business accounts (Pak and Save for our consumables; baking goods and messy play items and Bin it bin for our Playcentre rubbish/green waste and petrol for our lawn mower or drop fees for when we do a big working bee) In terms of consumables: How does it work for purchasing weekly consumables and other things needed unexpectedly as we will no longer have a Treasurer to quickly reimburse? Will it be the same process (send in receipts and be reimbursed) but through playcentre Aotearoa through the centralised bank account?

In our centre, we invoice members for fees, but if term fees aren't paid after 6 months we have voided those invoices as the assumption is the family can't pay that right now. How will this be handled? Will Playcentre send debt collectors for non payment of fees, when we view them as a contribution only if you can? Will we have the ability to find out if fees haven't been paid, and what we want to do about it?

Role of the Kaimahi

How will centres be able to have a say in expenditure that is needed for their centre (eg purchases of equipment and supplies)? Will the kaimahi be in charge of all supplies, including the choice of what is provided? Or will parents and volunteers still have a say?

Will a kaimahi replace, or be in addition to a paid supervisor? Or is it likely a paid supervisor might then take on the kaimahi role?

Can you please clarify if putting our centre under the financial management of Playcentre Aotearoa would mean that we would lose our lovely paid educator?

Having a Kaimahi in every centre sounds wonderful, and I look forward to a reduced work load. However I'm wondering how this might be achieved for rural centres where even attracting new members can be hard. What support/options are there if there is no suitable person in the area for the Kaimahi role? Sharing Kaimahi between centres would seem an obvious answer but is that fair to those centres?

When/how will more detail about the kaimahi be constructed and or released?

Please provide a tasks list and/or a job description for the proposed Kaimahi Position, so that members can see what admin in particular will be taken off their hands?

Could you also let us know the plan for hiring 400 Kaimahi when we are finding employment difficult for essential roles to keep sessions open?

Will current Playcentre members be able to apply for the Kaimahi position especially if they can prove that they have the relationships within their centre and know their centre best?

Will facilitators still exist alongside a kaimahi?

Are Kaimahi expected to be the Person Responsible?

Are Kaimahi able to be current members with children at centre (ie. an independent 3 year old)?

Will the kaimahi be present on every session?

Will there be one separate kaimahi per centre, dedicated to that centre solely, or will some kaimahi work at more than one centre?

If the kaimahi is considered the only person responsible on a session, they will need to be supervising tamariki the whole time. Will they be required (and paid) to do administration work outside of session times?

How do you expect to hire a kaimahi for hard-to-staff, isolated centres?

Will centres still have Centre Advisors, or are they effectively replaced by the kaimahi?

If a person applied for the kamahi role who did not have a Playcentre background or ECE qualification but were otherwise the only suitable candidate for the role, would they be supported to complete the Playcentre Education?

How will the kaimahi's hours be determined?

If our Kaimahi is not able to attend (sickness etc.) and a replacement can’t be found, will the session still be able to run and under what circumstances (i.e. can a parent volunteer be the person responsible/first aider for that session)?

I think the plan you have for a Kaimahi and to combine bank accounts is sensible and a good plan, I could see this working if the Kaimahi is allocated enough hours and can be present during sessions. I definitely do not think you should consider letting current centre members be the Kaimahi though this will cause huge issues and rifts in centres. Please do not mix Centre members with Paid staff- it does not work. It also does not work having your own child present at centre while doing a paid role even if someone else is their Carer. Please re-consider this- past members could work but not present members.

Our centre has 3 employed session facilitators. Would we be allowed to retain them alongside a kaimahi?

Can current funds be tagged to our centre indefinitely? Just like fundraising etc. In the presentation it said “for a limited time” When transferring to the PCA account.

Kaimahi - Where will 400+ of these come from?

Kaimahi - What is the salary?

What education level will they need? Access to quality funding has helped our centre finances a lot but there is no Playcentre education pathway to diploma or degree as originally advertised to members. Are you aiming to hit quality funding with a paid person to unlock more funding? Or if you are hoping to employ ex members you will be capping off at C4/L4 only, so need volunteers to have L4 among them? But with a paid staffer is there enough incentive for volunteers to complete the C series?

How confident are you to find so many people with such a broad skill set - good with kids, licensing points, administration skills, compliance experience/understanding and financial planning/bookkeeping skills? It’s a really big ask of one person - I can say that from experience! What will quality delivery look like and how can you guarantee it?

How can they hold all these skills and not be a centre manager - so in a way servicing volunteers with less skills/responsibilities/knowledge, but big passion? That requires a lot of personal resilience too, it’s a challenging balance to strike.

Who would be their line manager?

How will you ensure consistency of provision across centres? And how will they access experience from other centres to take a broader view and access lessons learnt elsewhere?

Will centres get to interview and choose their kaimahi? A good chemistry fit is important. Centres (in Auckland) can’t choose their session support staff now, which is contrary to what is in the employment policy. Did you know this?

If Kaimahi underperform what will happen? We have had issues in the past and given frank feedback in appraisals but nothing came of it or improved - so we pay for less value and cannot do anything about it. We have also had little hands-on or practical support with Property, policy/procedural questions, admin heavy tasks, ERO prep and all aspects that covers from the variety of people who we understood should cover this off - regional office, Centre Admin/CSW, CA… How would this be better with this role?

Where are they based? Many centres don’t have office space. Who provides their computer equipment? Will they use our data and are we at risk of running out/over our data allocation?

Where will Playcentre Aotearoa find 300-ish people who have broad compliance knowledge, good financial management skills and be available for a part-time job?

How will the kaimahi be funded? What happens if you don’t secure additional funding? Will it use up existing tight resources?

We currently have a Session Facilitator and Session Support Worker on every session, and they have the qualifications that allow us to get Quality Funding to be able to afford them. Will the Kaimahi be replacing them? The reason our centre has 20+ enrolments 5 days a week is because of the consistent and supportive environment created by this team. Our Session Facilitator has been with us for years, every day, all day. She know what is going on in our families outside of playcentre and has many times been a great source of support and a shoulder to cry on. Will the Kaimahi be there full time? Also, will we be a big enough centre to be able to have both a Session Facilitator and a Kaimahi?

Can you clarify whether you expect the Kaimahi role to make obsolete other volunteer officer roles (eg health and safety, secretary, enrolment), or whether it is an oversight and management role which will simply ensure that requirements are met? Clearly the treasurer role is earmarked for removal, but it is unclear how much involvement centre parents are going to be able to have in the running of their centres.

The power point presentation mentions that 'The kaimahi are responsible for administration and compliance, as well as enabling whānau community involvement in the running of the centre to the greatest extent possible. The kaimahi will also provide curriculum and education support with running licensed sessions'. Does this mean we will no longer need any job roles? The How-will-finances-be-managed document specifically mentions that a Treasurer will no longer be required. However it is unclear about all other job roles including coordinator.

Where will Playcentre Aotearoa find 300-ish people who have broad compliance knowledge, good financial management skills and be available for a part-time job?

We have currently 2 paid session facilitators over 4 sessions in our centre and without them our sessions wouldn't be able to run. Would the kaimahi include the facilitation and the work of the CA meaning both facilitators would not continue in their current role? Basically would they lose their job?

How do you hope to recruit enough staff to fill the kaimahi roles? (when it was so difficult to fill the roles CA and CSW fully in the 'last round')

The kaimahi role sounds amazing and is what we have been screaming for. Dropping if roles like Treasurer and Health and safety roles sounds good as it would ease pressure, but what roles will remain that we can use to keep our centre culture?

Where will the money come from to pay for the kaimahi? Is there a rough budget that shows that we can fund 400+ kaimahi? PA is already running on a deficit.

Where are we getting all these kaimahi employees? Aren’t we struggling already in getting educators now?

Will the kaimahi result to a higher funding model from MOE?

Will the kaimahi be the one doing the H&S checks at session? It would be good to know the details of their job description.

Are the kaimahi joining all centre meetings?

How will the Kaimahi be appointed? Will centres have control/ input to that selection/ recruitment?

I personally think the kaimahi role is a great idea! From what I've discussed with some of our centre members it sounds that most families would prefer less admin workload and more play time with their kids (myself included). Especially with the supervision role becoming a burden to families as they don't want to commit to being on session for the full duration, some have littlies that need to go home early for naps, or others just aren't morning people. And for some members who have done the education being forced to be on supervision nearly every session to meet licensing requirements. It's off putting for those members. It's also off-putting to members who considered doing the education, as they don't want to get roped into more responsibilities. We've been struggling with this a lot lately. We currently have a paid session facilitator each day too. if we could have a session facilitator as well as a kaimahi, that would be fantastic and solve our supervision dilemma. I think I have read through all information available about the proposed changes now and only have 2 questions. Is it possible for funds to be potentially granted for both a kaimahi and session facilitator for each day? Or would our current facilitators change their role to kaimahi or employ a new kaimahi if they choose not to take on the role? I know that probably won’t be determined till nearer the time, depending on our numbers, but wanted to check anyways. Our role is currently around 15 tamariki per day. And what specific roles could be filled by a kaimahi? I understand parent volunteers is still important. But to know exactly how much they could potentially cover for us, so we know what roles to take on for the upcoming AGM. (treasurer, enrolments, secretary) I understand for a transition period our members will continue to do these roles. But after that time, If a kaimahi can do a role, I'd definitely volunteer to train for a different one at the AGM, planning in advance, and I know others would to :)

When you replace our facilitators with kaimahi and go back to a “ parents as first teachers” model , will you be expecting parents to do all planning , session eval, setting of goals , learning stories. Sounds like you are planning to swap one type of admin (license, compliance, health and safety) with another admin (learning stories, planning). Who will be expected to undertake all the review work?

How can a Kaimahi do their job of “taking the admin load” and be Person Responsible, when a PR needs to be on the floor engaging with children, would have to attend trips, etc?

I think having a kaimahi in each centre is a great idea. We have recently employed a session facilitator which has reduced my stress levels/workload considerably. I think the Kaimahi would do so even more. The kaimahi would provide continuity as people come and go from Playcentre, and help to carry on certain centre traditions. Does the Kaimahi have to be Course 3/Level 4 or above? I think a lot of very experienced ex-Playcentre people would be excluded from applying for this role if that were the case.

Will the kaimahi have some hours outside of session times to complete admin tasks? If the kaimahi is expected to facilitate play, and build relationships, and support whanau, AS WELL as do admin, I think it would be very difficult to do all of those jobs properly, if they were expected to do it all during session time.

Will the Kaimahi have access to Discover to view up-to-date enrolment lists for each session?

Clearer details of the new Kaimahi role please, and are they envisaging the Session facilitator will fill this role? If not, how will this work and who will do what?


Will centres still be organised into regions, with regional managers, leads, etc?

What does this potentially mean for educators/facilitators and centre advisors?

Previous restructures placed people in roles with inadequate training. How will this be avoided?

Will this mean many job losses for Centre Facilitators/ Centre Advisors? As there job would be combined.

We have a wonderful employed person responsible who loves supporting our current members on session, but I know she will not want to take on any of the responsibilities of the kaimahi role. Will we be able to continue employing her as our person responsible as well as another person taking on the role of kaimahi?

What security will be given to current educators? Will they be offered the roles of Kaimahi? We have an exceptional educator and we would be devastated to lose her!

We have the best RSL in our area since the restructure change of employment last year, and finally we also had an amazing CA start this year, will you be getting private feedback from us to support whether they will be offered positions going forward? We do not want to lose these amazing humans and in the past we havent always had the best people in management.

Didn't Tracey Martin and our CE say several times about not mixing employment with governance? Will you set up rules that if you employee members to enforce they will not be able to be apart of Centre decisions or hold role positions as that would be a direct conflict of interest. Or will we keep flip flopping and blurring the lines like we have always done and dig ourselves from one hole to a new hole.

If members can become the new Kaimahi for their centre this is setting up for animosity within the centre... How can one member with a child be worthy of being paid to do jobs while others do the rest of the work for free, inc looking after their child for free?

Playcentre Education

Are any changes proposed for Playcentre education?


Many of us operate in draughty, dilapidated MINISTRY OWNED buildings. Can the co-design involve targeted property funding and/or guarantees from the Ministry to make the buildings fit for purpose?

If there is disagreement about whether to repair or vacate a building - who will decide?

We have a lease with local church . Will our centre still have responsibility to liaise with landlord or will kaimahi ? Also will PCA be responsible to pay any rent rises in future?

We have an interesting lease , and our landlord requests we pay $$ toward capital works. (We need to re roof soon) will PCA fund this , even though it’s not PC building?

How will property projects magically get funded in the future as mentioned in the presentation? What amount of money do you need to make this happen?

How confident are you that the MoE building assessment was thorough? I assume this is being used for property financial planning. We found mistakes in ours and we asked for more clarity and got no response. This report did not flag our heating as an issue, but PCA thinks it is, and our playground and soft fall matting has a 3 year shelf life - this wasn’t included either.

Would a kaimahi research finding vendors, get quotes together, present options for agreement (or is this not in centre hands at all) do all approval processes including Council (so copious chasing), and compliance checks, and project manage delivery as well as PCA paperwork?

Who decides what needs to be done, what is worth doing and in what priority order? Repairs, hazard removal, upgrades, positive improvements etc. If the centre doesn’t have a bank account then the decision is taken elsewhere?

Will you fund repairs to buildings that Playcentre doesn’t own?

Will the community be given the opportunity to purchase the building, land & resources if a centre is wound up?

Our building is owned by Playcentre Aotearoa. The news that Property would be the responsibility of Playcentre Aotearoa under this proposal was music to my ears! Our centre has multiple large property maintenance issues, and I don't see them as being things that a centre member could or should have to manage/co-ordinate. Can we expect to have a Property co-ordinator actually visit our centre IN PERSON sometime in the near future?

Under the new proposal, will centres be expected to fundraise for property maintenance/development costs? Ie will a 20% contribution still be expected.

General Feedback

While the volunteer nature of the organisation is enshrined, it should be acknowledged somehow that many centres need facilitators for both licensing and helping maintain continuity. Our centre has a transient population and only a small proportion of families stay more than a year.

I think the brand relationship idea is unwise. It's likely that the centres who opt out of the Trust authority will be all the ones with large surplus funds.

While I think the proposal has merit, I think it will be hard for some of us to trust it, as we've had a revolving door of support workers, advisors etc and some of them gave contradictory advice or didn't know what they were doing.

This is a terrible idea. Sounds like 3 waters. We work hard for our surplus dollars and have then earmarked. Our Treasurer feels valued in her role. We do NOT want to pay someone who is not emotionally invested in Our tamariki, in Our centre, in Our mana to do the job, that is currently going well.

Very disappointed that this is the outcome you have come to. Without bank accounts, we cannot apply for funding as an individual centre (yes we can as a collective but as a rural centre this does not work for us). We need to retain our autonomy as although we all come under the same umbrella we all have different needs. We are struggling with numbers so have been watching our money so we can keep going..now you want it? How are we going to buy what we need and who determines this? Are you restructuring the CA's positions again? As it is we do not see them very often (and we have a good one but she has many centres to visit). To me you have gone back on promises that were told to centres in the beginning! So how are we supposed to trust anything you say or do! What has happened to consensus? We have neither been consulted with or even considered in this decision! What is happening to Playcentre -we will end up as a Kindergarten at this rate! Where is our point of difference? I have been involved long enough to know the problems we have but this is not the answer!

Policy book was introduced on a Thurs and expected to be used as of the following Monday. No acclimatisation time at all (clashing with prep for an ERO review in our case, so dreadful timing).

Discover was launched before it was ready with poor user testing. This was executed to a shocking standard and it is still unwieldy to use, wasting hours and regularly throwing start of session out of whack.

Telephony project left us with no number forwarding, an automated Google profile we cannot amend, signage which is incorrect, and a whole bale of freshly printed cluster leaflets with the wrong details for our centre, a phone so quiet we can’t hear it ring and a hot spot that times out and throws Discover out of synch so it is unusable for a whole session. This came out of nowhere too.

A comment. In regards to “how do we keep people at centre ?” We seriously need to relook at the PIA/PEA education model. I 100% agree that parent education is crucial for understanding playcentre . It is crucial for parenting . But parents are leaving in droves or not even starting (because they hear about the intensity of “training expectations” from others in the community) the assessment requirements are ridiculous, extremely time consuming and utterly unreasonable to expect parents of young children to complete. It is killing centres. It is killing me having to force parents through courses and assignments that are so ridiculously over complicated. Not to mention, The level of English required is phenomenal. These people are parents, they shouldn’t have to be high school (Or higher) graduates to complete these courses. They are so discriminatory by nature . They are wordy and lengthy . I have heard of Playcentre’s creating “assignment teams” to create assignments to send in on other members behalf because the pressure is so intense to get licensing; surely defeating the purpose completely. Pia module one alone is 2 full days face to face. Followed by an Assessment of 3 learning interactions with full page reports , and 3 learning stories . + a learner map. 16 hours face to face. 7 pages of assignment. Just for HALF of the PIA assignment. Please PLEASE consider saving our centres by a serious review of your education expectations. Kara Daly presenting four 1 hour online sessions about play and te whariki. Would be educational and enjoyable…. Rather than something to be endured . It should be engaging education, rather than “assessments.”